From christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de Thu Feb 2 18:28:45 2012 From: christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de (Christoph LANGE) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:28:45 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] Using HetCASL for COLORE 2.0 In-Reply-To: <4F2AB05B.8060203@dfki.de> References: <4F269887.4020202@uni-bremen.de> <4F26C57F.7050000@mie.utoronto.ca> <4F296903.7050207@uni-bremen.de> <4F2AB05B.8060203@dfki.de> Message-ID: <4F2AC7CD.8000305@uni-bremen.de> [sending once more, now really to hets-devel ? sorry] Hi Till, let me follow up on this by forwarding to hets-devel; I think that makes sense now. 2012-02-02 16:48 Till Mossakowski: >>> [expressing COLORE's metatheoretical relationships in HetCASL] >> >> @Till, what do you think: Should we go beyond HetCASL as it is supported >> by Hets now? Or should we first focus on those metatheoretic >> relationships that HetCASL already supports? We could then go beyond >> HetCASL and towards "what we would like DOL to be" in the next step. > > I think it makes sense to start with the HetCASL-supported things first, > because all this can be checked with Hets. BTW, in reworking my "COLORE relative interpretations" example according to Eugen's replies to my Trac questions (@Eugen, thanks once more!), I did some checking with Hets. In doing so, I sanitized some COLORE *.clif filenames to CamelCase, and fixed some other syntax errors inside the files. @Michael, I do recall that you said that in COLORE 2.0 these would be fixed anyway, but today's exercise just gave me a better feeling for checking CL texts with Hets, and I believe that that will also be useful in COLORE 2.0. > Now DOL is very similar to HetCASL, in particular, relative > interpretations and conservative extensions are written in exactly the > same way. Eugen has just tried out that in Hets, CLIF files can be > imported using from ... get ... into HetCASL, BTW note that so far we don't have from ... get ... in DOL, as * we wanted to keep DOL simple, and * we assumed that everything would be identified by URIs (i.e. no more need for "library IDs" and "spec IDs" within libraries), and * that, if there should be the need to "download" something into an application, we'd assume that that "something" has been published as linked data (and is thus downloadable from its URI), * or, if it is not published as linked data, we'd leave it to the application to figure out how to download it (see http://trac.informatik.uni-bremen.de:8080/OntoIOp/ticket/28) So there is no need to add this feature to DOL, but: Now that Hets is about to become a "DOL application", I think the most reasonable solution is that we maintain a non-standard language "HetDOL", which is "ISO 17347 DOL" plus "from/get" plus some other features that make it practically possible to handle DOL ontologies with Hets. Does that make sense to you? My comments end here; I'm just leaving the rest of your mail for the list archive. > so it is possible to mix > CLIF syntax with HetCASL/DOL syntax. > Which DOL features going beyond HetCASL do you need? Probably you will > need mapping symbols to terms in a relative interpretation. This can be > simulated with writing extensions by definitions; here, you might > provide both a DOL version (for the OntoIOop community) and the > simulated version in HetCASL (for checking with Hets). > What other features do you need? > I am just sitting here with Eugen and we are discussing nonconservative > extensions, but we still do not fully understand what they are needed > for (the upper-lower example is not that illustrative). Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Lange, Universit?t Bremen http://kwarc.info/clange, Skype duke4701 ? Workshop Semantic Web Collaborative Spaces (SWCS) @ WWW 2012 Lyon, 17 April 2012. Deadline 6 February. http://www.swcs2012.org ? SePublica Workshop @ ESWC 2012. Crete, Greece, 27/28 May 2012. Deadline 29 Feb. http://sepublica.mywikipaper.org ? I-SEMANTICS 2012. Graz, Austria, 5-7 September 2012 Abstract Deadline 2 April. http://www.i-semantics.at From christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de Thu Feb 2 19:09:22 2012 From: christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de (Christoph LANGE) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:09:22 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] Nonconservative extensions [Re: Relative Interpretations in COLORE] In-Reply-To: <4F299360.2000509@informatik.uni-bremen.de> References: <4F167F0D.6090508@uni-bremen.de> <4F171197.20500@uni-bremen.de> <4F171606.6030504@informatik.uni-bremen.de> <4F17189F.30303@dfki.de> <4F172923.8030805@dfki.de> <4F17BFD4.4080100@dfki.de> <4F1A16F0.4050208@uni-bremen.de> <4F1AC3BD.7010503@dfki.de> <4F1AE545.6040504@uni-bremen.de> <4F1FD4F2.1050602@uni-bremen.de> <4F201FB8.8030502@mie.utoronto.ca> <4F20A48B.4080808@uni-bremen.de> <4F21254B.2070008@dfki.de> <4F2162A6.4040700@uni-bremen.de> <4F2169A9.5060501@dfki.de> <4F21733C.70601@uni-bremen.de> <4F2176C1.5060105@dfki.de> <4F2986C4.2080807@uni-bremen.de> <4F299360.2000509@informatik.uni-bremen.de> Message-ID: <4F2AD152.5060705@uni-bremen.de> Hi Eugen (and hets-devel), 2012-02-01 20:32 eugenk: > Am 01.02.2012 19:39, schrieb Christoph LANGE: >> Having looked into this once more, I wonder in what way the >> upper/lower example (now implemented in HetCASL as >> Hets-lib/CommonLogic/Examples/SymbolMap.het) is a non-conservative >> extension at all. Can you explain that to me? >> > I don't remember that any more. I *think* upper/lower were just > dummy-files to demonstrate the syntax of nonconservative extension. OK, thanks for explaining! > Up to now, only the "conservative extension"-relation from COLORE is fully > implemented in Hets. Only the clif-syntax-extension for the other > relations is implemented, not "what happens behind the scenes", because > Michael needed some time for his work and later I needed much time for > class. BTW what are you going to do now that Michael said that COLORE will be using HetCASL rather than those CLIF comment annotations? Drop them from Hets, and instead add more "kinds of views" (or something like that) to HetCASL? Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Lange, Universit?t Bremen http://kwarc.info/clange, Skype duke4701 ? Workshop Semantic Web Collaborative Spaces (SWCS) @ WWW 2012 Lyon, 17 April 2012. Deadline 6 February. http://www.swcs2012.org ? SePublica Workshop @ ESWC 2012. Crete, Greece, 27/28 May 2012. Deadline 29 Feb. http://sepublica.mywikipaper.org ? I-SEMANTICS 2012. Graz, Austria, 5-7 September 2012 Abstract Deadline 2 April. http://www.i-semantics.at From eugenk at informatik.uni-bremen.de Thu Feb 2 19:29:22 2012 From: eugenk at informatik.uni-bremen.de (eugenk) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:29:22 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] Nonconservative extensions [Re: Relative Interpretations in COLORE] In-Reply-To: <4F2AD152.5060705@uni-bremen.de> References: <4F167F0D.6090508@uni-bremen.de> <4F171197.20500@uni-bremen.de> <4F171606.6030504@informatik.uni-bremen.de> <4F17189F.30303@dfki.de> <4F172923.8030805@dfki.de> <4F17BFD4.4080100@dfki.de> <4F1A16F0.4050208@uni-bremen.de> <4F1AC3BD.7010503@dfki.de> <4F1AE545.6040504@uni-bremen.de> <4F1FD4F2.1050602@uni-bremen.de> <4F201FB8.8030502@mie.utoronto.ca> <4F20A48B.4080808@uni-bremen.de> <4F21254B.2070008@dfki.de> <4F2162A6.4040700@uni-bremen.de> <4F2169A9.5060501@dfki.de> <4F21733C.70601@uni-bremen.de> <4F2176C1.5060105@dfki.de> <4F2986C4.2080807@uni-bremen.de> <4F299360.2000509@informatik.uni-bremen.de> <4F2AD152.5060705@uni-bremen.de> Message-ID: <4F2AD602.6060404@informatik.uni-bremen.de> Am 02.02.2012 19:09, schrieb Christoph LANGE: > BTW what are you going to do now that Michael said that COLORE will be > using HetCASL rather than those CLIF comment annotations? Drop them > from Hets, and instead add more "kinds of views" (or something like > that) to HetCASL? We have to discuss that with Michael. Although I think the CL-syntax-extensions are going to be dropped, since HetCASL was favoured by the Colore team and the CL-extensions were made primarily for Colore. Cheers, Eugen From Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de Fri Feb 3 10:58:56 2012 From: Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de (Till Mossakowski) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:58:56 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] Using HetCASL for COLORE 2.0 In-Reply-To: <4F2AC7CD.8000305@uni-bremen.de> References: <4F269887.4020202@uni-bremen.de> <4F26C57F.7050000@mie.utoronto.ca> <4F296903.7050207@uni-bremen.de> <4F2AB05B.8060203@dfki.de> <4F2AC7CD.8000305@uni-bremen.de> Message-ID: <4F2BAFE0.8040408@dfki.de> Hi Christoph, > Now that Hets is about to become a "DOL application", I think the most > reasonable solution is that we maintain a non-standard language > "HetDOL", which is "ISO 17347 DOL" plus "from/get" plus some other > features that make it practically possible to handle DOL ontologies with > Hets. > > Does that make sense to you? yes. Maybe in the future Hets can even support the union of HetCASL and DOL - or do you see any incompatibilities? Best, Till -- Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226 DFKI GmbH Bremen Fax +49-421-218-9864226 Cyber-Physical Systems Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~till/ Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!: Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair) Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 From christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de Fri Feb 3 12:15:22 2012 From: christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de (Christoph LANGE) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:15:22 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] Using HetCASL for COLORE 2.0 In-Reply-To: <4F2BAFE0.8040408@dfki.de> References: <4F269887.4020202@uni-bremen.de> <4F26C57F.7050000@mie.utoronto.ca> <4F296903.7050207@uni-bremen.de> <4F2AB05B.8060203@dfki.de> <4F2AC7CD.8000305@uni-bremen.de> <4F2BAFE0.8040408@dfki.de> Message-ID: <4F2BC1CA.9000008@uni-bremen.de> 2012-02-03 10:58 Till Mossakowski: >> Now that Hets is about to become a "DOL application", I think the most >> reasonable solution is that we maintain a non-standard language >> "HetDOL", which is "ISO 17347 DOL" plus "from/get" plus some other >> features that make it practically possible to handle DOL ontologies with >> Hets. >> >> Does that make sense to you? > > yes. Maybe in the future Hets can even support the union of HetCASL and > DOL - or do you see any incompatibilities? No, I don't think there will be incompatibilities. After all, it is us who will be designing HetCASL and DOL. And note that "the union of HetCASL and DOL" is exactly what I called "HetDOL" above. Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Lange, Universit?t Bremen http://kwarc.info/clange, Skype duke4701 ? Workshop Semantic Web Collaborative Spaces (SWCS) @ WWW 2012 Lyon, 17 April 2012. Deadline 6 February. http://www.swcs2012.org ? SePublica Workshop @ ESWC 2012. Crete, Greece, 27/28 May 2012. Deadline 29 Feb. http://sepublica.mywikipaper.org ? I-SEMANTICS 2012. Graz, Austria, 5-7 September 2012 Abstract Deadline 2 April. http://www.i-semantics.at From christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de Tue Feb 14 12:53:00 2012 From: christoph.lange at uni-bremen.de (Christoph LANGE) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:53:00 +0100 Subject: [Hets-devel] COLORE external in Hets-lib: include "verification" directory? Message-ID: <4F3A4B1C.2080904@uni-bremen.de> Hi all, last week I added https://colore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ontologies as an external to https://svn-agbkb.informatik.uni-bremen.de/Hets-lib/trunk/CommonLogic. Now I noticed a new sibling directory https://colore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/verification. Would we also like to have this in Hets-lib? I'm not sure whether Hets can handle the files in this directory (Prover9 input and output files?) in a reasonable way, but maybe this information is still relevant. @Michael, do you have a recommendation? If we'd like to have it, I would change the external from trunk/ontologies to trunk/. Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Lange, Universit?t Bremen http://kwarc.info/clange, Skype duke4701 ? Workshop Semantic Web Collaborative Spaces (SWCS) @ WWW 2012 Lyon, 17 April 2012. Deadline 17 February. http://www.swcs2012.org ? SePublica Workshop @ ESWC 2012. Crete, Greece, 27/28 May 2012. Deadline 29 Feb. http://sepublica.mywikipaper.org ? I-SEMANTICS 2012. Graz, Austria, 5-7 September 2012 Abstract Deadline 2 April. http://www.i-semantics.at From mudcat at mie.utoronto.ca Tue Feb 14 14:47:25 2012 From: mudcat at mie.utoronto.ca (Michael Gruninger) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:47:25 -0500 Subject: [Hets-devel] COLORE external in Hets-lib: include "verification" directory? In-Reply-To: <4F3A4B1C.2080904@uni-bremen.de> References: <4F3A4B1C.2080904@uni-bremen.de> Message-ID: <1329227245.4f3a65ed9c48c@webmail.mie.utoronto.ca> Hello Christoph. the https://colore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/verification directory is strictly speaking not part of the ontology repository in COLORE, but rather contains proofs of all of the metatheoretic relationships among the ontologies (i.e. consistency, nonconservative extension, relative interpretation, and definable equivalence). The idea is that in addition to ontologies, we also maintain a repository of proofs. I have been using Prover9, but people can use any software to derive proofs and construct models. One possibility is to use HETS as the environment to generate proofs and models, and then upload them to the appropriate directory in the repository. - michael Quoting Christoph LANGE : > Hi all, > > last week I added https://colore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ontologies as > an external to > https://svn-agbkb.informatik.uni-bremen.de/Hets-lib/trunk/CommonLogic. > > Now I noticed a new sibling directory > https://colore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/verification. Would we also > like to have this in Hets-lib? I'm not sure whether Hets can handle the > files in this directory (Prover9 input and output files?) in a > reasonable way, but maybe this information is still relevant. > > @Michael, do you have a recommendation? > > If we'd like to have it, I would change the external from > trunk/ontologies to trunk/. > > Cheers, > > Christoph > > -- > Christoph Lange, Universit??t Bremen > http://kwarc.info/clange, Skype duke4701 > > ??? Workshop Semantic Web Collaborative Spaces (SWCS) @ WWW 2012 > Lyon, 17 April 2012. Deadline 17 February. http://www.swcs2012.org > ??? SePublica Workshop @ ESWC 2012. Crete, Greece, 27/28 May 2012. > Deadline 29 Feb. http://sepublica.mywikipaper.org > ??? I-SEMANTICS 2012. Graz, Austria, 5-7 September 2012 > Abstract Deadline 2 April. http://www.i-semantics.at > >